A few weeks ago, I made the mistake of trying to have a rational discussion with some abortion protesters. The awful arguments floored me, so I made a post of it. I never thought I would find a topic where more bad arguments are employed then in the discussion of religion. I guess I still have much to learn. I am now getting e-mail from anti-choice nutters. Below is one of these tortured e-mails and my evisceration of a few points. I have left plenty of red meat for you to play with. Pick a stupid argument and help our new friend understand why there points are so pathetic. I’m sure that in a day or two more people will flock here to spam the blog and I will have to block more people – so don’t wait, comments will likely close soon.
FYI… If you are new to reading my blogs you must know that any e-mail sent to me can be used any way I want to. Up to and including the publication of the ISP and full identifying information. This time I have taken the courtesy of not printing this info…
I just read your blog post regarding your conversation with 4 nice ladies outside of PP. First of all, I think it is so cool that you were openminded enough to respectfully talk with these women. You have my respect right there.
I wanted to counter a couple of the arguments these ladies could not. 1)Many pro-lifers have thought through the question of whether to prosecute women should abortion become illegal. The mainstream concensus is that your average woman should not be prosecuted for this crime. The abortion Dr. is the one performing the murder and profitting from the suffering of the woman. The historic view in this country and the one I think we should return to is that the woman is a second victim in the crime of the Dr. (Theis part is conjecture, based on personal conversation and stats.)Most women historically and today do not feel free to really choose the fate they would prefer for their baby. They make the painful decision to abort their child because they feel pressured by poverty, partners, parents or circumstances like education. These are the factors that need to be addressed prevent abortion, not putting women behind bars. Also, if these are orthodox Catholic women, they don’t believe in the death penalty for anyone.
2)The blastocyst or zygote differ from cells such as the egg, sperm, or skin cells because it is a complete organism in itself with distinct and unique DNA.It is not a part of the woman’s body, it is a separate life living temporarily within her womb. That is the difference.
2)You are very right that Maragret Sanger’s reasons for founding PP are not necessarily reflective of PP mission today. However, it is a well-known fact that M.S. was a eugenecist. Simply google “Margaret Sanger quotes” and you will find many anti-black, anti-poor and anti-mentally and physically handicapped quotes. The American eugenics movement, of which Sanger was a major player actually influenced the Nazi movement greatly. (NOTE: I am not calling you or other modern pro-choice people Nazis, simply stating a historical fact.)Although PP does not espouse racist ideas, they still give out a Margaret Sanger award each year and have done nothing to apologize for or distance themselves from their racist past. What if the KKK decided to become another Lion’s club or Rotary club? Would we all just “be ok” with that?
4.) I’m not Catholic myself, but I was dissapointed that you simply poo-pooed these ladies’ claim that the Catholic priests have an abuse rate on-par with that of public schools and showed no evidence that that claim was invalid. I’m curious to know the answer. Furthermore, there is one difference between the Catholic church and PP– the Catholic church does not recieve Federal Funding. At least, I would say that an organization that covers up rape should not recieve federal funding, especially when half or more of American tax payers do not support its mission. I’m glad you were able to choose to donate to PP, I only wish I was able to choose not to donate to PP.
Thank you for your kind letter. Starting with flattery really helped me through the tortured logic that followed. I thank you for that. As you may have noticed I did that post a few weeks ago and I grew bored with the repetition of worn out arguments that I have already knocked down and closed the comment section to prevent more of the same. In a wonderful disregard for my sanity, you have taken the time to thrust your opinion on me via an e-mail. Therefore, I can only assume that you will warmly welcome my response in such a public forum.
1) Prosecution…. If you think that the destruction of a 4 cell blystocyst is murder – then it is murder and the woman should face the full force of the law for her participation. To argue the contrary would be like me taking an 8 year old child to a man that will cut him into pieces with a saw and then throw the pieces into a chipper with no loss of my liberty? By your own argument it is different. Therefore, I just won. Thank you for playing.
1b) “Most women historically and today do not feel free to really choose…” REALLY??? You are going to outlaw abortion so women can be free to choose? The inherent flaw in this logic is an automatic forfeit of your position.
2) You acknowledge that your point is not relevant but you cannot stop your self – you make it anyway. The rest that follows is a non-sequitor and adds no value.
3) I guess there is no point 3.
4) I “poo-pooed” Their claim because it is ridiculous. You missed the whole point. If I come to your house and find that you beat your kids every day – the correct response is not that your neighbor does it to their child also. catholics seem to ignore the constant rape and cover up of rape that is systematic within their organization. I fully explained this in the comments to one of the PP posts. (look about half way down the page for my detailed response)
4b) Federal Funding. This in inane. Every church in the USA gets the following funds from local, state and federal government. NO sales tax, NO property tax, NO FICA (Social Security) tax on “called” employees, Up to 100% on income made can be used as a housing allowance and therefore all federal income taxes are avoided. There is also billions given to churches every year by the federal government. churches do not pay for the roads, police or fire department but feel free to use them. I can assure you I pay far more to support churches then you do to support PP. So, don’t ever use the argument that churches don’t get government help – you now know that it is a lie.
If you simply wish to believe that abortion from day one is wrong then don’t get one. Why must your views be forced upon others by force?