I Get Mail – Abortion Edition!
Posted by Phil Ferguson on April 28th, 2011 – 23 Comments – Posted in religion
A few weeks ago, I made the mistake of trying to have a rational discussion with some abortion protesters. The awful arguments floored me, so I made a post of it. I never thought I would find a topic where more bad arguments are employed then in the discussion of religion. I guess I still have much to learn. I am now getting e-mail from anti-choice nutters. Below is one of these tortured e-mails and my evisceration of a few points. I have left plenty of red meat for you to play with. Pick a stupid argument and help our new friend understand why there points are so pathetic. I’m sure that in a day or two more people will flock here to spam the blog and I will have to block more people – so don’t wait, comments will likely close soon.
FYI… If you are new to reading my blogs you must know that any e-mail sent to me can be used any way I want to. Up to and including the publication of the ISP and full identifying information. This time I have taken the courtesy of not printing this info…
Hi there,
I just read your blog post regarding your conversation with 4 nice ladies outside of PP. First of all, I think it is so cool that you were openminded enough to respectfully talk with these women. You have my respect right there.I wanted to counter a couple of the arguments these ladies could not. 1)Many pro-lifers have thought through the question of whether to prosecute women should abortion become illegal. The mainstream concensus is that your average woman should not be prosecuted for this crime. The abortion Dr. is the one performing the murder and profitting from the suffering of the woman. The historic view in this country and the one I think we should return to is that the woman is a second victim in the crime of the Dr. (Theis part is conjecture, based on personal conversation and stats.)Most women historically and today do not feel free to really choose the fate they would prefer for their baby. They make the painful decision to abort their child because they feel pressured by poverty, partners, parents or circumstances like education. These are the factors that need to be addressed prevent abortion, not putting women behind bars. Also, if these are orthodox Catholic women, they don’t believe in the death penalty for anyone.
2)The blastocyst or zygote differ from cells such as the egg, sperm, or skin cells because it is a complete organism in itself with distinct and unique DNA.It is not a part of the woman’s body, it is a separate life living temporarily within her womb. That is the difference.2)You are very right that Maragret Sanger’s reasons for founding PP are not necessarily reflective of PP mission today. However, it is a well-known fact that M.S. was a eugenecist. Simply google “Margaret Sanger quotes” and you will find many anti-black, anti-poor and anti-mentally and physically handicapped quotes. The American eugenics movement, of which Sanger was a major player actually influenced the Nazi movement greatly. (NOTE: I am not calling you or other modern pro-choice people Nazis, simply stating a historical fact.)Although PP does not espouse racist ideas, they still give out a Margaret Sanger award each year and have done nothing to apologize for or distance themselves from their racist past. What if the KKK decided to become another Lion’s club or Rotary club? Would we all just “be ok” with that?
4.) I’m not Catholic myself, but I was dissapointed that you simply poo-pooed these ladies’ claim that the Catholic priests have an abuse rate on-par with that of public schools and showed no evidence that that claim was invalid. I’m curious to know the answer. Furthermore, there is one difference between the Catholic church and PP– the Catholic church does not recieve Federal Funding. At least, I would say that an organization that covers up rape should not recieve federal funding, especially when half or more of American tax payers do not support its mission. I’m glad you were able to choose to donate to PP, I only wish I was able to choose not to donate to PP.
Thank you for your kind letter. Starting with flattery really helped me through the tortured logic that followed. I thank you for that. As you may have noticed I did that post a few weeks ago and I grew bored with the repetition of worn out arguments that I have already knocked down and closed the comment section to prevent more of the same. In a wonderful disregard for my sanity, you have taken the time to thrust your opinion on me via an e-mail. Therefore, I can only assume that you will warmly welcome my response in such a public forum.
1) Prosecution…. If you think that the destruction of a 4 cell blystocyst is murder – then it is murder and the woman should face the full force of the law for her participation. To argue the contrary would be like me taking an 8 year old child to a man that will cut him into pieces with a saw and then throw the pieces into a chipper with no loss of my liberty? By your own argument it is different. Therefore, I just won. Thank you for playing.
1b) “Most women historically and today do not feel free to really choose…” REALLY??? You are going to outlaw abortion so women can be free to choose? The inherent flaw in this logic is an automatic forfeit of your position.
2) You acknowledge that your point is not relevant but you cannot stop your self – you make it anyway. The rest that follows is a non-sequitor and adds no value.
3) I guess there is no point 3.
4) I “poo-pooed” Their claim because it is ridiculous. You missed the whole point. If I come to your house and find that you beat your kids every day – the correct response is not that your neighbor does it to their child also. catholics seem to ignore the constant rape and cover up of rape that is systematic within their organization. I fully explained this in the comments to one of the PP posts. (look about half way down the page for my detailed response)
4b) Federal Funding. This in inane. Every church in the USA gets the following funds from local, state and federal government. NO sales tax, NO property tax, NO FICA (Social Security) tax on “called” employees, Up to 100% on income made can be used as a housing allowance and therefore all federal income taxes are avoided. There is also billions given to churches every year by the federal government. churches do not pay for the roads, police or fire department but feel free to use them. I can assure you I pay far more to support churches then you do to support PP. So, don’t ever use the argument that churches don’t get government help – you now know that it is a lie.
If you simply wish to believe that abortion from day one is wrong then don’t get one. Why must your views be forced upon others by force?
“it is a well-known fact that M.S. was a eugenecist. Simply google “Margaret Sanger quotes”>>
Another anti-choice dimbulb passing along lies and false quotes attributed to Margaret Sanger, that they’ve researched on the “simply google.”
All rightwing horse shit, carefully debunked here:
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/files/PPFA/OppositionClaimsAboutMargaretSanger.pdf
Don’t forget, the Bible is pro-choice from start to finish. All detailed here:
http://fayfreethinkers.com/tracts/fetus.shtml
@ Darrel,
Thanks. It is so easy to use the google. You ROCK!
Even if abortion is made illegal, I don’t see Planned Parenthood going away. I makes me wonder what the protesters really want. If abortion went away and Planned Parenthood stayed, would they become supporters, or would they still be against it?
Planned Parenthood existed in the US 30 years prior to Roe vs Wade.
The fayfreethinkers web site is a total misinterpretation of the bible.
Try this from Psalm 139:13 “truly you have formed my inmost being; you knit me in my mother’s womb … nor was my frame unknown to you when I was made in secret”
And from Isaiah – would a mother forget the child in her womb even if she should forget I will not forget you.
@ Pro Life,
Oh goody… Now we get to the worst arguments ever – bible quotes.
I guest slavery is ok…
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)
And we know what to do with women that are not virgins…
But if this charge is true (that she wasn’t a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father’s house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
Guess what you do to anyone that is not a christian?
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
I could go on all day but I have a lawn to mow. The problem is that every argument you make on this subject is crushed but you just don’t get it. You have your views – fine! I will not take away your right to choose. The problem is that you want to take away choices from others! When you try to justify it – you fall short every time.
Maybe you just like the abuse.
Phil, I hope that you got your lawn mowed.
I could say the same as you just did – “every argument you make on this subject is crushed but you just don’t get it.” You are the one who just doesn’t get it. This blog just can’t stand it when someone enters with a different point of view. I pray for you every day. And by the way I am not the first one on this blog to give Bible quotes. I was merely answering one of your people who was misinterpreting the Bible to their destruction.
Lawn mowed…..
You can say the same thing – it just would not be true… Let us look at the most recent example…
You claim…”The fayfreethinkers web site is a total misinterpretation of the bible.”
You provide no support you make no argument you just make a claim and ignore the material. The funny thing is that the one of the points of this site is that you can pull out bible quotes to support any position. A point that you completely missed because, the next thing you do is pull a quote from this 3,000 year old book that kinda supports your position. At least if you cover one eye and tilt you head in just the way that you do.
In an attempt to be MORE obvious I pull out several random stupid things from the bible. You still do not acknowledge the point that the bible can be wrong. Maybe I was too subtle – so let me ask this simple and direct question….
Is the bible correct and we should have slavery – or do you think slavery is wrong?
We would love to hear your direct response to this one simple question. That is – if you really want to have a discussion. If you just want to spew forth your opinion and not discuss – please move on.
Also classy (sarcasm) at the end or your comment. If you don’t think just like me then my powerful and invisible friend will kick your ass. NICE! If understanding the bible was so important…. why was god not able to be clear? Why are there over 30,000 forms of christianity in the US alone?
I can say to you that “every argument you make on this subject is crushed but you just don’t get it” and I do say that and I would be absolutely right. Your arguments are a desperate attempt to avoid the truth. A baby before and after it is born is a human life.
“Slavery” and I thought that we were talking about abortion. I am not the one who brought the Bible into this discussion. the people on your blog did. I went to the freethinkers site, I read the Bible verses quoted and I read the verses before and after and fayfreethinker has taken everything out of context and twisted it to her own purpose. It is pointless to take each point being made and refute it because the whole site is a misrepresentation of what is in the Bible from beginning to end and I am sure that you would not listen.
Now to your question about slavery. Was slavery in the United States right or wrong? It existed here too. For a time it was part of the American culture until more enlightened minds prevailed. In time science will prevail and prove that a baby in the womb has just as much a right to live as any other human life. With ultrasound we are coming closer and closer to that day.
PROL: “The fayfreethinkers web site is a total misinterpretation of the bible.”>>
Okay, then you shouldn’t have any trouble at all demonstrating a specific example of “misinterpretation” of the Bible. Why didn’t you take a moment to do this? If I made the claim that YOU were misinterpreting the Bible, I would give an example, and I would back it up with evidence. But you didn’t even try.
PROL: “Try this from Psalm 139:13 “truly you have formed my inmost being; you knit me in my mother’s womb …”>>
I am very familiar with this verse and the handful of others you may appeal to. This verse is a bit of Hebrew poetry. It accomplishes nothing for your position. Here’s why. Since God, as the story goes, knows all things from beginning to end, he knows of you before you are born, he knows you before your parents were born and before the earth was formed. So this verse, and God “knowing” something at any point in time, gets you absolutely nothing regarding the status or personhood of a fetus. Think about it.
PROL: “And from Isaiah – would a mother forget the child in her womb even if she should forget I will not forget you.”>>
You don’t say which verse you are referring to. I could find it for you but you really should make your own case. Perhaps you are thinking of this:
“The Lord hath called me from the womb: from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name. Isaiah 49:1″
This is a again, a snatch of poetry talking about God’s knowledge of you before you are born. But he had knowledge of you, before your parents met and from the beginning of time. Did you have the status of personhood before your parents met? Of course not. This makes the fetus irrelevant to any aspect of God’s knowledge because this God supposedly knows all things, for all time.
Hope this helps.
D.
———-
A note for Phil. It’s quite appropriate for PROL to appeal to Bible verses in her attempts to show the Bible’s position on the status of the fetus. If her God was against abortion or considered a fetus a person, then He could have and should have taken a moment to mention it in the Bible. And then PROL would have been able to appeal to this verse and have a slam dunk case. But she can’t because her God never took a moment to say a word against abortion, and I have given several specific well referenced arguments showing the Bible, and the Bible God, did not consider a fetus a person. This represents standard mainstream scholarship.
PROL should attempt to address my arguments directly. I will post them, conveniently numbered, below:
1) If men have a fight and one of them causes a pregnant woman to miscarry, the penalty was a fine; if the mother was harmed, it was “life for life” (Exod. 21:22,23). While a small number of politically correct fundamentalist Bibles try to fix this verse (NIV), all of the major scholarly translations think the best way to translate the literal “goes forth” in Ex. 21:22 is with the word “miscarriage.”
This includes:
Revised Standard Version
The American Standard
New English Bible
Today’s English Version
The Douay-Rheims Bible
The Jerusalem Bible
The Jewish Study Bible
2) Numbers 5:17-31
“…and the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel, and take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water.”
This passage describes a method by which the husband could induce an abortion, with the help of the priest. If a husband suspected that his wife had engaged in an adulterous relationship, then he would bring her to the tabernacle and the priest would make a magical drink consisting of holy water and sweepings from the tabernacle floor. He would then have the woman drink the water while he recited a curse on her. The curse would state that her abdomen would swell and her thigh waste away if she had committed adultery. If she were pregnant at this time, the curse would certainly induce a miscarriage. There is no concern about the fate of the fetus. There was no similar magical test that a woman could require of her husband if she suspected him of adultery.
3) Leviticus 27:6
“If the person is from a month old up to five years old, your valuation shall be…”
A child was only given a value after the age of one month; boys were worth five shekels; girls three. Below the age of one month they were given no monetary value.
4) Numbers 3:15
“…every male from a month old and upward you shall number.”
Only male babies over one month of age were counted as persons during a census. A baby under one month of age and a fetus were not counted as a person.
5) Genesis 38:24
Tamar was found to be pregnant and because she was a widow, without a husband, she was assumed to be a prostitute. Her father-in-law Judah ordered that she be burned alive for her crime. If Tamar’s twin fetuses had been considered to have any value whatsoever, her execution would have been delayed until after their birth. There was no condemnation on Judah for deciding to take this action. (Judah later changed his mind when he found out that HE had impregnated Tamar when she posed as a prostitute.)
More here: http://fayfreethinkers.com/tracts/fetus.shtml
PROL: “fayfreethinker has taken everything out of context and twisted it to her own purpose.”>>
Excellent. Then you shouldn’t have any trouble at all giving a specific example of where I have done this and then demonstrating how, providing further context to any of the verses I have sited, changes the conclusion. Don’t forget to do this.
PROL: “It is pointless to take each point being made and refute it”>>
Not only is it not pointless, it is your responsibility. You have a made a specific charge and now you have an obligation to be honest and back it up with evidence, and not just mere assertion.
PROL: “the whole site is a misrepresentation of what is in the Bible from beginning to end”>>
If your claim is true, then it will be very easy indeed for you to make your case and support your claim with evidence. When are you going to begin? When are you going to make an attempt?
PROL: “I am sure that you would not listen.”>>
This is a very poor excuse. I assure you, I will be paying very close attention and listening attentively to you as you attempt to back up your charges.
PROL: “science will prevail and prove that a baby in the womb has just as much a right to live as any other human life.”>>
Actually, whether our society today (or the Bible in times long past), a fetus should have rights of personhood, is an ethical moral question and is not one science will, or can, address.
PROL: “With ultrasound we are coming closer and closer to that day.”>>
Ultrasound has nothing, and never will have anything to say, about the legal status of personhood. That’s a moral question. And the Bible’s answer to this moral question is clear. A fetus does not have the status of personhood.
D.
PRO
Once again you claim everything is wrong but cannot cite one example. Wrong! This is not how this bog works. You can have any position you want – but you must support it. You don’t!
Slavery……
BZZZZZ…. Wrong answer. or should I say – no answer. How sad a pathetic that you cannot say that slavery is wrong. Until you give a clear answer pro or con, to this simple question you will not be allowed to post. You do not want to talk. You only want to post your spam.
@ I Was There,
Your post is off topic and has been removed. You are still welcome to comment for now. However, posts must be directly related to the current thread. You could address one of the points in the letter, my response or something discussed by another poster. Since your friend failed the quiz and is now out of the game – maybe you would answer this simple question.
Is the bible correct and we should have slavery – or do you think slavery is wrong?
Phil, I know very little about what is in the Bible. I don’t need to read the Bible to have faith. For me, it has come with age. Yes, slavery was wrong. Anyone with a heart knows that. Every living being has a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness – those born and unborn, The lapel button at the top of this subject says Pro Fucking Choice, I feel that my last comment which you removed most definitely pertains to Pro Fucking Choice. Moms have a choice,right? Adoption is an option and you are pro choice. I didn’t know this was a game. I was hoping to save a life thru you, Phil. What if there is a girl who is pregnant and looking to your site for an answer. You must give her a choice because you are pro choice. This is in your hands now. Please post my comment. I beg you. Together we can do great things. You are a good guy, I know that. thanks.
Just checking in – I see they are still there. Thank you. You won’t be sorry. Now it is in the Mom’s hands. Together we stand, divided we fall. Please choose life – babiies are an amazing gift to the world.
@ I was there,
Thank you for answering the question on slavery. That is why your comments are still up. I don’t want this to be a game – I want it to be a conversation. However, when commenter post the same material again and again and or do not respond to questions they demonstrate that they are not hear to discuss, only to yell our their position. Each person is free to do that on their own blog. On this blog you need to discuss the topic at hand and not repeat yourself.
Now if I may ask a follow up question. (you don’t need to work in your opinion that abortion is wrong when giving your answer – we know your position)
You said you know little about the bible – why is that? Saying that you don’t need to read the bible is in direct contradiction of the faith you claim to belong to. The catholic church teaches… (in Sections 131-133 of the Catechism)
“The Church “forcefully and specifically exhorts all the Christian faithful…to learn the surpassing knowledge of Jesus Christ, by frequent reading of the divine Scriptures. Ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ.”
I ask that you read the bible. I actually DARE you to read it. I would like to know if you stand behind it after you actually know what is in it.
As an example: You are hear to try and teach me something. Some people think that you should not be allowed to do this. Here is why….
A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 1 Timothy 2:11-14 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Timothy+2&version=NIV)
So… Eve ruined it for everyone and you cannot teach – Why are you violating this biblical rule? I am fine with women teaching and having authority over men – are you?
Thank you for “:teaching” me how to blog. I will not take your dare to read the Bible. I have tried to read it, but I’m not really interested in it. I have never said that I stood behind the Bible. There are so many versions & translations. I don’t think anyone knows for certain what happened 2000 years ago. Even tho I have no desire to read the Bible, I am a baptized Catholic and am never pressured to read the Bible. I always feel quite welcome in my Church. I think I probably know Christ about as much as anyone else. I listen to the scripture reading and homily at Mass every Sunday. I am a simple person who enjoys the simple life. I guess for me, the Ten Commandments tell me everything I need to know and practice.
How do I feel about quietness and submission – I’m sure you’ve heard the phrase – “We’ve come a long way, baby!” My husband works 2 jobs & I work part-time, so he’s just glad I’m taking care of things. When we first got married, I ironed his underwear and often took his shoes off at night. We did all the things that he wanted to do and I just followed along. After a while, I sort of lost track of who I was and how important I was. That is when all hell broke loose. I moved out for awhile, but eventually I came back home to keep the family together. He was never really mean or abusive to me, he just didn’t acknowledge this person who raised his family, cleaned his house, mowed his lawn, cut his hair, cleaned out the garage, washed his vehicles, fixed his breakfast every morning w/make up on, hair done, and dressed for the day, etc. Now that I am back home, he takes notice of all I do for him and appreciates it. We enjoy that morning cup of coffee together, camping trips, etc. Likewise, I appreciate having a roof over my head, someone to share time with, etc. So no, I do not believe wives should be submissive to their husbands. Women play a very important role in the home and
My crazy laptop just submitted my comment before I was finished and didn’t even allow me to proofread. Anyway, I’m not very quiet at home and if I think the carpet needs to be replaced, I just rip it up while he’s at work and order new. He is just so glad that I am back home and he doesn’t have to make all the decisions. We both play an important role in our family. I respect him & he respects me.
Women make great teachers. The only male teacher I had taught me history in high school – boring! One of my best friends is an elementary teacher and she always makes sure that I go to the bathroom before we go somewhere.
Adam & Eve – Adam probably wanted to eat the apple, but didn’t have the energy to pick it, so he asked Eve if she would pick it for him. Being a loving submissive wife she picked the apple for him, or perhaps she didn’t feel like fixing lunch for him. Who knows! You make things too difficult, Phil.
OK, I answered your questions, now back to the Commandments – I think there is one which says “Thou Shalt Not Kill – there are no ifs ands or buts about it. Abortionists are killing babies.
Thank you for this opportunity to communicate on your blog. Adoption is the “in thing”
@ I was there,
It is a shame that you won’t read the bible. I think it is a very important book and will help you understand why most atheist have problems with religion. Note: Most atheists (in America) have read the bible. I call it the atheist maker!
If you won’t read the whole bible – maybe you just read a few pages. Please just read Exodus 20-34. It is only a few pages. It covers the story of how Moses got the 10 commandments. I bet there are some parts to the story that they don’t tell you in Sunday School.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+20&version=NIV
Below is the short version….
or you can watch the video here….
http://www.skepticmoney.com/the-real-10-commandments/
Exodus 20: gOd give Moses some rules – 42 I think. They are not the 10 commandments but some will only use the first few and call them the 10 commandments. There are rules for how to not show your “privates” on an Altar, how to sell your daughter as a slave, how hard you can beat your slaves, what to do if your bull kills someone, how much to pay for your wife, you should kill witches etc… The list goes on and on.
Exodus 32: Moses goes down the mountain with the tablets with all the rules on front and back. He smashes these tablets and this is what happens next….
Exodus 32: 27-29
“Then he said to them, “This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: ‘Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.’” The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of the people died.”
So….Thou Shall Not Kill? gOd just slaughtered 3,000 people because he was pissed at a gold cow. So much for the rules!
Exodus 34:14-27 Moses goes back up the mountain and gOd give him the ACTUAL 10 commandments. This is the real 10 commandments – gOd said so…
Here they are….
14 Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.
15 “Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land; for when they prostitute themselves to their gods and sacrifice to them, they will invite you and you will eat their sacrifices. 16 And when you choose some of their daughters as wives for your sons and those daughters prostitute themselves to their gods, they will lead your sons to do the same.
17 “Do not make any idols.
18 “Celebrate the Festival of Unleavened Bread. For seven days eat bread made without yeast, as I commanded you. Do this at the appointed time in the month of Aviv, for in that month you came out of Egypt.
19 “The first offspring of every womb belongs to me, including all the firstborn males of your livestock, whether from herd or flock. 20 Redeem the firstborn donkey with a lamb, but if you do not redeem it, break its neck. Redeem all your firstborn sons.
“No one is to appear before me empty-handed.
21 “Six days you shall labor, but on the seventh day you shall rest; even during the plowing season and harvest you must rest.
22 “Celebrate the Festival of Weeks with the firstfruits of the wheat harvest, and the Festival of Ingathering at the turn of the year.[b] 23 Three times a year all your men are to appear before the Sovereign LORD, the God of Israel. 24 I will drive out nations before you and enlarge your territory, and no one will covet your land when you go up three times each year to appear before the LORD your God.
25 “Do not offer the blood of a sacrifice to me along with anything containing yeast, and do not let any of the sacrifice from the Passover Festival remain until morning.
26 “Bring the best of the firstfruits of your soil to the house of the LORD your God.
“Do not cook a young goat in its mother’s milk.”
27 Then the LORD said to Moses, “Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.” 28 Moses was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant—the Ten Commandments.
So… the ten commandments tell you everything you need to know? Now you know how to cook a goat!
This is why you need to actually read the bible.
Phil, I’m sorry but I read your reply and got out my Bible and skimmed thru it. I would like to stick to the topic, but your references are so out-of-date that I cannot even comprehend it. I noticed that in chaper 20:13 it simply states “You shall not kill” and there are no ifs, ands, or buts listed., Regarding the Old Testament, I am hoping that Jesus, as the Father’s Son, will have a great influence on his Father, God, who seems quite strict. Even if I had a goat, I would fall in love with it and could never eat it. In leafing thru my Bible to the New Testament – The Gospel According to John, I find these verses:
.
John 12:33 -”the light is among you only a little longer, Walk while you still have it or darkness will come over you. The man who walks in the dark does not know where he is going. While you have the light, keep faith in the light; thus you will become sons of light.” (It seems to me that Athiests walk in the dark)
John 13:34 – “I give you a new commandment: Love one another. such as my love has been for you, so must your love be for each other. This is how all will know you for my disciples; by your love for one another”. Many comments by your bloggers sound as if they are written by people who hate others.
John 14:1 – “Do not let your hearts be troubled. Have faith in God and faith in me. .. I am the way,. the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but thru me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father, also. from this point on you know him; you have seen him.”
John 14:12 – I solemnly assure you, the man who has faith in me will do the works I do, and greater far than these. Why? Because I go to the Father, and whatever you ask in my name I will do, so as to glorify the Father, and whatever you ask in my name I will do, so as to glorify the Father in the Son” Jesus speaks of love. Again, I find no love in most of the comments from your bloggers, only hate and sarcasm.
John 11:26:”I am the resurrection and the life; whoever believes in me, tho he should die, will come to life; and whoever is alive and believes in me will never die.” Phil, you are a good guy at heart, I could tell or I would not have touched your arm. I noticed that when you were interviewing us at PPH, you treated us with respect and you were smiling; however, when you got on this blog, you treated us very disrespectfully. You are the company you keep, why don’t you close down this site? John – “God is love, so let us love one another.” Life is out there just waiting for you. Go for it. Adoption – the “in thing”. Please contact – Birthright, Family Life center, or Right to Life. They will help you & your baby, not hurt you or your baby. Phil,enjoyed the conversation.
References are out of date? They have not changed for 100′s of years. Are you looking in the same book? Exodus 20:13 does say you shall not murder – no argument there. My point is that these are NOT the 10 commandments. If you can’t follow my citations watch the video.
http://www.skepticmoney.com/the-real-10-commandments/
It is real clear!
How odd – The one that reads the bible is the atheist and the one that has no idea what is inside and refuses to read it claims to be a christian and believes what is in it. That is funny.
I don’t think I was disrespectull (i guess you disagree) what I did was listen to what you claimed and did research and found many of the claims to not be true. When show to be false – the point is ignored and more baseless claims show up. Even now you ignore the point that the bible is filled with evil. You ignore the fact that god said don’t kill then told moses to kill 3,000 and then said not to kill again. The god in this book is a psychopath – you just don’t want to see it.
You hope that jesus will help god. Whaaa haaa haaa. Did you forget the trinity? They are one in the same. Remember god snuck down and raped a palastian virgin so she could give birth to his son – I mean him! HUH???
Remember jesus said lots of nasty stuff also…
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. Matthew 10:34.
However, we have already covered the idea that you can pick random quotes to support anything. So what we have is an evil invisible god and a worthless book that promotes slavery and keeps women in thier place. It was just getting fun and now you want to run away?
Well, I don’t have all the answers and neither do you. I just try to be proactive by treating others with respect and taking good care of my family and pets. That is all I can do. Perhaps you do the same. I’m not going to spend my life trying to figure out the Bible, running down God, and Catholics. Oh, I forgot to mention regarding the drivers ed teacher who sexually abused me – he & the principal came to my house and apologized to my parents. The principal told them that they knew he had a problem but were not going to fire him because he was getting old and they were waiting for him to retire. He abused many women including my neighbor. Oh, those horrible public schools! Nothing is perfect including the Catholic Church, but the church does a lot of good, and no one talks about that. Maybe you should research that topic. If I ever needed any help, that is where I would go.
I thought you were disrespectful on your blog – we never claimed to have all the answers, we were there because we believe life begins at conception – we took the time on a Saturday and a Sunday and had the guts to declare that belief in public & with signs – not just as an invisible person on the internet with a fictitious name. Calling us anti-choice nutters was disrespectful.
References are out of date – I should have said times have changed & I cannot relate to life as it was then. It was an evil time – We’ve come a long way.
I base much of my faith on events that have occurred in my life. You are young and believe me something is going to happen to you at some point in your life and it will literally knock your socks off. You will have the biggest decision of your life to make. When that happens, I hope that you choose wisely and that you will be blessed because you made the right decision, as I have been. I’m not really running away, it’s just that I have flowers to plant, a dog to walk, cats to play with, a meal to cook for my husband, a house to clean, and laundry to do. Basically, I have a life other than talking to people who aren’t even a part of my life, who couldn’t care less about me.
Thanks.
Odd how the mind works. I kept commenting with you because I do care. I want the world to be a better place and the best way to do that is face reality. You keep saying you have faith – faith in what? You said the 10 commandments but, when I explained what the bible says are the 10 commandments you dodged that. So what do you have faith in? How do you know it is real? Why can’t you answer so many of these simple questions?
I kept commenting with you because I do care – Actually, I was referring to your bloggers and the fact that you keep these conversations going w/people you don’t even know who probably couldn’t care less about you. Maybe I was wrong, perhaps they do care about you. It does become addictive. Just wondering if you have a life other than this website. Do you have a job? A family? Isn’t your house falling down around you from neglect? I have found that even the short time I am on this site, I neglect the things that are mine. I’m thinking that your website is totally consuming your life. Is that really a good thing?
You want to make the world a better place by facing reality – how do you know there isn’t a God and that there is no after life? Are you so sure? Are you really that all knowing? Just because you have read the Bible doesn’t make you an expert in the after life. Unfortunately we will get the answer when and if we pass from this world to the next and that is reality, Phil.
What do I have faith in? Simple question, you say! I believe that Jesus Christ did walk the earth and that he was crucified for our sins, so that we might be saved and have eternal life. Therefore, I try to be proactive in the hope that I might somehow have eternal life, by living the BASIC 10 commandments as I was taught as a child. I keep telling you that i’m not interested in the way the Bible describes them. I prefer to keep them simple. Sort of like Math, if you learn the basic principles, you can solve anything. What is eternal life? I have no idea, but it sounds better than the alternative. I try to always think of God in a respectful, fatherly way, although I did accidentally take his name in vain when I spilled a pitcher of water all over myself and my laminate floor this morning. I try but I make plenty of mistakes.
Here is a song that is sometimes sang in our church w/guitar -
There is a wonderful story written a long time ago
It’s the gospel according to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
The gospels were given to show us the power of God’s love divine.
May that story be told again in the life of your life and mine.
People will read and admire the gospel w/it’s love so inspiring and true,
But what do they say and think of the gospel according to you?
We are writing a gospel a chapter each day by deeds that we do, by words that we say.
We are writing each day a gospel.
Take care that the writing is true.
For the only gospel some people will read is the gospel according to you, Phil.
I dare you to not get on this website for 24 hours. There is a whole world out there just waiting for you. Do not neglect the life that is in you or the things that belong to you.