You Say…. God Says…. Inspiration From The Bible

Posted by Phil Ferguson on February 22nd, 2012 – 52 Comments – Posted in Bible

New and improved version of “You Say God Says”

Follow me and the blog on Twitter

———————————-

starting text from Pastebin.

I found several christian versions that leave out all of the good stuff.  Here is a sample.

I thought I would make my own version and put actual bible quotes….

you say god says

 

  1. Chris says:

    I made my own: you say: torture is wrong. god says: …..
    you say: rape is wrong. god says: …..

  2. Phil says:

    @ Chris,
    Very snarky. I like!

  3. attempted researcher says:

    it’s kind of amazing how if you take things out of context and historical/cultural meaning, as well as not researching the actual hebrew translations of verses, you can pretty much spin god however you want. and it goes both ways. christians, jews, and non-christians often do this depending on what they’ve decided they want to believe.

    even if you take the perspective that the bible is fictitious, it’s far too complex to understand and comment on knowledgeably without reading it fully and researching the cultural and historical implications as well as actual hebrew language and translations.

    i can’t wait for real theologians to learn how work the interwebs. apparently they can’t. it’s about time for deep understanding and research to take a ride on the meme train.

    • Jim Ashby says:

      @attempted researcher,

      You can’t have it both ways. Either the Bible is the divinely inspired, inerrant, word of God or it’s not. Either God is perfection and the source of morality or he isn’t.

      The fact is, slavery is upheld by BOTH the Old and New Testaments. The warrior God of the Old Testament and the gentle God of the New Testament BOTH uphold slavery. Check out Luke 12:47, which says, “Beat slaves who did wrong with many stripes, unless they knew not their wrong, then few stripes.“ Spoken by none other than Jesus Christ, God in the flesh.

      The single issue of slavery is all it takes to prove God is not moral, timeless or perfect – and neither is his split-personality scripture. If the allegedly omniscient, omnipotent, God or his scripture can’t stand the test of time, they’re frauds.

      • Anonymous says:

        Maybe you should read the context of that verse. It just so happens to be a parable. Nice job there slick.

        • Jim Ashby says:

          That IS the point, Anonymous. Jesus used the familiar, accepted, “normal”, treatment of slaves as a metaphor for God’s treatment of us. In the everyday reality of the Biblical era, it was considered natural to punish slaves in proportion to their wrongdoings. Jesus was saying that the righteousness or our punishment of slaves was similar to the righteousness of God’s punishments for us.

          Being a parable doesn’t necessarily make it better. In this case, it makes it worse and confirms the institution of slavery as a valid, natural, part of God’s scheme for mankind.

    • Steve says:

      Its too bad god hasn’t tried to clear things up to make his message clearer, rather than having to rely on people who study these things there entire life and have a vested interest, and then we have to take their work for it that it is true. Doesn’t seem like a conflict of interest at all to me.

  4. ruth says:

    The person who ade this lack of knoledge and wisdom.
    You don’t take a verse out of it s contexe or it will mislead you

    • Mike says:

      Out of interest what possible context can condoning slavery, child murder and the punishment for rape to be marry the raper as being fit things can there be? I find those things wrong full stop regardless of context.

    • Ari159 says:

      Oh the irony…

    • Chritopher A Jimenez says:

      Then Christians should stop citing bible fragments at all.

      If verse citing is for indoctrination it is OK
      but when verse citing exposes “uncomfortable parts” then it is disinformation and manipulation.

      This type of reaction from Christians is very spected… manipulative and hypocritical nature.

  5. Michael says:

    It’s incredible how quick people will talk about the bible being taken out of context when it points to something dark, but as soon as an issue arises that doesn’t mesh with your beliefs they pull passages from the bible and tell you it is literally “god’s word”

  6. Charles Raymond Miller says:

    I invite all who cry that these brief Bible quotes are “out of context” to actually read the surrounding text. Read it in Hebrew if you can (Greek for the NT) Nothing makes the point better that the “Holy” Bible is full of bronze-age cruelty and superstition than a complete reading of the text.

  7. Wild Rumpus says:

    I also lack knoledge! I make it a point to never listen to knolegible people because it will misled me.

    • W00ster says:

      “I also lack knoledge!”

      Yeah I can see that, should have paid more attention in school.

    • Chritopher A Jimenez says:

      Then you should stop listening bible quotes at all.
      Read the bible cover to cover by yourself and do not let anybody mind control you.

  8. perspective says:

    And everything is done the same way now as it was back then right? Paying for maids could be considered slavery right? Grounding your kid could be considered punishing them right? I will never judge anyone for their views or try to change them, but what most forget to consider is the TIME DIFFERENCE. There are repercussions from everything on the list that have similar punishments that God said.

    • Mark says:

      Here is where Jim Ashby’s post is seconded.

    • ThinkManThink says:

      No, paying for maids is not slavery. It is a voluntary exchange of equal value between a person who needs a service done and is willing to pay money for it and a person who needs money and is willing to perform a service for it. It’s a contract.

      As for the “changing times” argument, why would God, who supposedly exists beyond time and thinks in spans of billions of years as if they’re an eyeblink, not be able to come up with a better, more enduring framework for humans to follow than the Bible? How do you explain, for example, 1 Kings, where a bunch of children are making fun of a priest and he damns them, at which point God sends a bear out of the woods that eats the kids alive? And Heaven/Hell? Heaven is the largest collection of sociopaths ever. How could you ever be happy knowing that billions are suffering?

    • Chritopher A Jimenez says:

      Can I beat maids?

      Does god change his mind?
      Does god adapt to modern human times?

  9. Chritopher A Jimenez says:

    Were did this “you are taking it out of context” born?
    its an indoctrinated cult-protection scheme, or is it a intuitive dissonance response?

  10. Mike says:

    And to those that do not believe in God, don’t get so angry. I love the tone of the writings here. You can see how offended the non believers are becoming. I being a Christian, have the right to my beliefs and yes we do have a freedom of speech as well. We allow Gay Pride parades which is an abomination to God. And so many suffer?? There are consequences for your actions and for your decendants as well. So many can speak freely of their falso Gods, Buddha, allah and all their magical monkey’s or their doorknobs they believe is their higher power. Good for you. Why is it that all cry out to Good Jesus Christ when they come across hard times??? We will all foind out one day when we pass from this earth..

  11. Mike says:

    And thank you kindly to who posted that first slide. I will post it on all my facebook pages and friends pages, spread the good news on twitter, blogs, websites in church.

    Bless you.

  12. mike says:

    I sure am. It does not bother me one bit. You are entitled to your opinion as am.I.

  13. mike says:

    @ Jim. So there is power in Christianity ??? Thanks for clarifying all that you have previously posted about..

    Cheers :-)

    • Jim Ashby says:

      @Mike,

      I assume people are intelligent until they prove otherwise. I’m beginning to doubt you’d recognize a fact if it bit you on the nose.

      Many Christian apologists try to give the impression that slavery was only upheld in the Old Testament. The fact is, it was also upheld – by none other than Jesus himself – in the New Testament. It’s gospel! Here’s the verse (Luke 12:47) . . .

      “Beat slaves who did wrong with many stripes, unless they knew not their wrong, then few stripes.“

      . . . Paul and Peter also upheld slavery in the New Testament. Come to think of it, there’s not a single word against slavery in the entire Bible.

      There’s all kinds of immoral acts condoned, upheld or even encouraged in the Bible: bloodlust, incest, genocide, vengeance, battlefield atrocities, slavery, etc. But, as far as I know, human subjugation (slavery and male dominance over women) is the only one endorsed by BOTH the Old and New Testaments. This fact is important because it preempts the old apologist cop out: “That was the old covenant of the Old Testament but Jesus changed things with his new covenant of the New Testament”. They can discount the Old Testament all they want but slavery is also upheld in the New Testament by the ultimate authority: Jesus himself . . . God in the flesh.

      Apologists are persistent, so next he’ll likely attempt to claim the word, ‘slave’, is a mis-translation. But it’s not. The Greek word, ‘doulos’, plainly means slave and is used unambiguously in the Bible. Some translations of the Bible soften the word into ‘servant’ but that’s an intentional attempt to mask an obvious weakness.

      Once you shoot down that lame claim, you’re likely to be told slavery was kinder and gentler back in the Biblical era. The other day, one such apologist claimed slaves were better treated because their masters knew that, by law, they had to manumit their slaves after 7 years (some experts claim it was actually 6 years) . . . and this foreknowledge “tempered the master’s temper”. However, that claim was a conscious, calculated, misrepresentation. The fact is: only indentured Jewish slaves – Hebrews who sold themselves into bondage because of extreme poverty or debt – had to be manumitted. But non-Jewish slaves (mostly Canaanites) were chattel for life and could be passed from generation to generation through inheritance.

      The bottom line is that real slaves (not the indentured, Jewish, slaves) were property for life and could be whipped or raped at the discretion of his/her master. Chattel slavery is chattel slavery: human subjugation is not kind or gentle. Or moral.

      The final, desperate, maneuver of the Christian apologist is to claim the “culture” or “prevailing attitudes” were different in the Biblical era. And that is the final nail in the coffin of the hapless apologist. By suggesting slavery is morally relative – justified by prevailing attitudes – one is admitting the immutable word of God is subjective, not objective, and not immutable or perfect or moral after all. Besides, God had always upheld slavery . . . nobody needed “prevailing attitudes” to make it okay.

      Apologists can’t have it both ways. Either God’s word is immutable or it’s not. Either God is good and perfect, or he’s not. Either God is the source and final arbiter of morality or he’s not. Either the holy Bible is true and the divinely inspired word of God or it’s not.

      And if God and the Bible are moral, true and perfect, then so is the slavery they uphold. But we know better. Don’t we? Slavery can no longer be upheld. We’ve grown beyond that. There’s no way in hell we will ever re-normalize slavery in order to align mankind’s morality with God’s. That slave ship has sailed. It’s over.

      This fact puts slavery out of reach of Christian apologetics. Anybody can see – unless they refuse to – that if God’s morality grows outdated, it was never true or perfect to begin with. Clearly, God’s word is not the objective truth. In fact, God stands corrected by us ALL: believers and nonbelievers alike. If we must overrule God, we don’t need him.

      The single issue of slavery is all it takes to prove God is not moral, timeless or perfect – and neither is his split-personality scripture. If the allegedly omniscient, omnipotent, God or his scripture can’t stand the test of time, they’re frauds.

      P.S.
      Of course, all this presumes the Biblical God exists in the first place.

  14. Budgell15 says:

    32 While the Israelites were in the wilderness, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. 33 Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, 34 and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. 35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp. ” 36 So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the Lord commanded Moses.

    There’s your context for you, still seems pretty bad to me.

    • Jim Ashby says:

      @Budgell15

      There are SO many passages in the Bible, like this one, which nobody in their right mind would try to justify. But almost all of them are in the Old Testament. The New Testament was revolutionary: a radical departure from the Old.

      If there are other moral faults, other than human subjugation, that occur in BOTH the Old and New Testaments, I’d like to know what they are. All it takes is one . . . but many would be better.

      What say ye? What is clearly immoral AND upheld in BOTH the Old and New Testaments?

  15. mike says:

    How you looked at the original Hebrew transcripts.?

    • Jim Ashby says:

      LoL, Mike. What a joke.

      That’s your response? Have I looked at the original Hebrew transcripts. No. But I have looked up slavery in Bible concordances and they do admit that slavery is the proper interpretation.

      Don’t you feel just a little bit foolish, Mike? You don’t address a single point made. You just fall back on your favorite cop-out. Screw your manuscripts. Yes, there are always issues with translations but, overall, we know perfectly well what the Bible stands for. And it DEFINITELY stands for slavery. Period.

      By the way . . . when I said that Jewish slaves had to be manumitted, by law, after 7 (or 6, depending on your source) years . . . I forgot to mention that female Jewish slaves, when sold by their fathers, are slaves for LIFE. They are chattel. Technically, it’s not just slavery that’s upheld in BOTH testaments of the Bible . . . it’s human subjugation, particularly of women.

      These are the testaments you put your faith in. These are the morals of your perfect God and his immutable scripture. You are a fool if you think this give you any moral high ground.

  16. Budgell15 says:

    This is as close to original translations as you’ll manage to find, and i assure you, the original still includes killing an innocent man for gathering wood.

  17. michelled says:

    You ALLOW gay pride parades? And who are you to think that it is something you could prevent or have the right or power to stop?

  18. Chris says:

    Nice parable!!!! Are you a pastor? You see slavery is ok for you also, i will make another spcial for you : kill the guilty little girl with a stone, but if the litle girl is no guilty use just a sword, and burn her as an offering ( with the rest of the city) but save the gold for god.

    Do not worry ! Its just the OT

  19. Isaac says:

    You know I was going to dig deep into the Bible and try to counter what has been argued about here. But after reading all of the comments here, I realized that no matter what I say or no matter what proof I give you, you will not be swayed. There is nothing I can do or say that will change your mind. I can tell you however, that none of this has changed my mind. I don’t need the Bible to tell me that God is real or that I should put my faith in Him. When I was young I seriously contemplated suicide, until He spoke to my heart and persuaded me not to take my own life. He literally saved my life. Later on I was dating this girl, whom I thought I loved. I went off to camp and one night, unexpectedly, I heard His voice. He said, “break up with her.” I was devastated and within a minute I said out loud, “No.” The next day I call her only to find out that she broke up with me through a Facebook message the day before. Later I found out that she had cheated on me. If I would have said, “yes” to God then I would not have been heartbroken and I would not have, for lack of a better word, betrayed God. A few years later, I was at a church camp. I was feeling as if this church camp was not for me, so to speak. Like I was supposed to pray with others and help them seek and find God. Every day I felt more and more like that, until half the camp was over and then that night I was out praying and worshiping God. I walking around doing these things, when suddenly I stopped. I had no idea why I did. A tree with a street light behind it just caught my eye and I was captivated by it. I wanted to keep moving, but yet I wanted to continue to stand there. Soon a woman that I have never met before approached me from the distance and said, “I prayed over these rocks and I prayed over this grass. God told me that the next person to stand here is the one that I need to give a message to.” She continued saying, “God is not finished with you. Look behind you! That (pointing at the mass of people praising God) is for you! This camp is for you!…” she went on to tell, from God, about irrelevant things for this conversation. A year or two later after the same camp, God used me to talk to my entire church and bring back a passion for Him to the church. Let me tell you, I hate public speaking. I never know what to say and all my points that sounded good in my head come out badly and in a mixed up order. But this, when God used me to speak to my church I did not have to think of what to say, He told me what to say and do and I did it. I spoke for over half an hour. I tried to give another sermon soon after to the youth group. I had months to prepare and it still came out like crap. Without God, I am a completely useless speaker. A month or so after that I was a coach for a kids church camp. On the last night, two separate kids who I didn’t know saw at least one demon within 150 feet from the worship service. (At this camp our services took place outside if this was not already clear) Both kids were frozen with fear. I nor anybody else could see them. That does not mean that they are not real. One of the kids described it to me. It had a black cloak on and I believe he said it had red eyes but I do not remember for sure now. I prayed with both of them separately and made sure they were ok and sent them off. They were no longer afraid but still showed caution when going near the place they saw it. An hour or two later, I was getting ready for bed after everybody else was already asleep. I was suddenly stricken with an extreme fear. I am hardly scared but this fear was so sudden and extreme without any sort of apparent reason. It’s difficult to explain, but then I sort of felt this entity rushing toward me. Thoughts of ways to murder myself entered my brain, drowning, eaten by hundreds of snakes, causing a tree to fall on me, etc… These weren’t my thoughts and I knew it. Anyway, story made shorter, I got help and was no longer afraid nor did I have any more of those thoughts.

    All these events are off the top of my head. They are all real. Whether or not you believe them is irrelevant. I know from my entire being that they are true and what happened shows God’s power and the last even shows Satan’s power. So I will continue to put my faith in the one true God day after day. Nothing you say will change that.

    • Mark says:

      You, sir, are a very troubled individual. You use your “faith” to bring forth a confidence and self-respect which you didn’t believe you previously had. None of these “gifts” were from God, or from any other deity, only yourself and the other humans around you, each believing in their own silly, shallow way they walk the path of some imaginary Santa Claus watching all of us from above. It’s nice to see humans getting together and doing good for/with each other, however this does not mean that god has spoken to you, any other person, or even that he exists in any way, shape, or form. Consider that there may be a part of the human psyche governing spirituality, a connection with nature and other humans in a way larger than ourselves. That may be your divine “answer”, rather than one who would condemn the same people he claims to love.

      • Isaac says:

        Mock me all you want. You are a man without any faith in anything besides yourself. And I have considered a connection to others and nature. Unfortunately, it offers nothing more than just a theory. And yes, God will send many people to hell. It states several times in the bible that He is a just God. So even though He loves those people, it does not give them a free pass into heaven. They have to accept Him as God and Jesus as His son and our savior. Are people that we love not put into prison? If someone commits murder should that person not be put into prison?

        • Mark says:

          You know nothing of my faith in Milk.

          http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/video8.htm

        • Phil says:

          Ack…. What a load of crap. That is not love.
          If you don’t love me I will make you burn forever???
          Pleaaaaseee. That is evil and sadistic. What you propose to be true IS the definition of evil.
          I would never tell my kids that they must love me or…. I will beat them every day and night until they do. NOT LOVE. As soon as you realize that you can be free of the fear – free of the lies.

          Here is another way to look at it…..
          http://www.skepticmoney.com/an-ogre-a-cake-and-a-pistol-how-to-explain-morality-to-a-christian/

        • Christopher Andres Jimenez says:

          “They have to accept Him as God and Jesus as His son and our savior. Are people that we love not put into prison? If someone commits murder should that person not be put into prison?”

          So not loving Jesus is a crime?, and also you equal it to murder

          non Christian = criminal

          non Christian = murderer

          non christians deserves punishment…..

          this is your psychopatic NAZY plot

    • Phil says:

      Isaac, I mean this in the nicest way possible. Please seek out professional help.

    • Christopher Andres Jimenez says:

      Its a psychological cocktail. Remember Blair witch project? it has a viral advertising campaign , it added realistic so so elements on it, and wen the movie finally came, many people got bored and disgusted, but many got totally perturbed, and horrified for many days!!! (i was one of them). I was shocked of my reaction, i got on the play of a psychological hysteria :O

      Now , with your ideas of so so reality, including ghosts, demons, evil forces, etc, etc, you are settling a HUGE cocktail with plenty o FUEL, you just need a little spark and you will get a trip….

      stop damaging yourself with that psychopathic ideas, and stop damaging children.

      • Isaac says:

        Here’s a fact. There are several places in both the new and old testament which talk about both angels and demons. An angel appears to David in the bible and tells him that he was delayed for 21 days fighting in battle trying to get him that information. The enemy is Satan and his followers. In Genesis, Satan was an angel in heaven who began to think he could over power God. That attempt failed and Satan and all the angels that followed him were cast out of heaven. Some refer to these angels as ‘fallen angels’. It is unclear if fallen angels compose all of Satan’s forces or not and if they could be referred as demons now. Here is another fact. Generally most Americans believe that there is a god whether or not that is my God is irrelevant. Most Americans believe that some god or being did make the universe or has some kind of control over it. Many less believe in angels, demons, and spirits. The Pharisees (Jewish leaders of the law) believed in angels, demons, spirits, and the afterlife. The Sadducees (also Jewish leaders of the law) did not believe in angels, demons, spirits, or the afterlife. However there are many examples in the bible when an angel comes to bring some form of news or message to someone in the bible and in some cases to more than one person. For instance, an angel appeared to the two women who went to see Jesus’ body on the 3rd day of his death but they found no body and an angel appeared to them and told them that he was resurrected. Typically when someone describes seeing an angel who appeared to them in the bible, there is a bright light and the angel is wearing extremely white clothes/ robes and the first thing they say is, “do not be afraid” and to be clear about when the demon was mentally attacking me. I was not afraid any time previous to the exact moment that it started about 2 or so hours after the two boys saw it. I even walked by myself where the demon supposedly was. But the fact is that I was terrified very suddenly not over time. Do you not think that one of the most powerful weapon a demon possesses against us is that it can remain hidden from sight? If they install fear in our minds when we don’t think they are there then it will be much more effective for them. However, if we could see them all the time then if we were under a similar attack as I was, then we would easily be able to overcome it.
        Are we really going to resort to name calling? Such as indirectly saying I am a psychopath and need professional help. That’s childish.

        You say I’m “damaging” myself, when in reality isn’t it protecting myself?

        And damaging children? Really?! I did nothing of the sort. The fact that two separate kids at two separate times were completely frozen with fear and when asked were able to point to the exact same location? Let’s get the facts straight. That was not even remotely caused by me or anyone else. We prayed with them and taught them how to overcome that.

        • Mark says:

          Isaac, the point here is that biblical verses, statements, errata, etc. are not “facts”. This is your perception of reality, and just because most American’s believe in God(or some type of deity) does not mean that said deity exists.

          Sidebar example: the introduction of soap into hospitals.

        • Christopher Andres Jimenez says:

          Stop playing that “reality show” about angels and demons.

          READ what you write, its insanity.

    • Jim Ashby says:

      Yikes man! Listen to yourself.

      I’m going to assume you’re an intelligent person but deluded by childhood indoctrination to the Christian faith. Your rationalizations for your faith reveal more about your fears than your strengths.

      I recall a T.V. interview with a relative (nephew, I think it was) of Jimmy Carter who was present when the future president had his ‘born again’ spiritual experience. It’s funny how the nephew portrayed it as a ‘nervous breakdown’. I should think that if the power of the holy spirit had entered Jimmy Carter, he would have spoken and acted empowered. But, instead, he just came off as a unhinged.

      The human brain can be a might peculiar thing. But that’s just how it appears. In reality, it’s not at all peculiar if you get garbage out if you’ve put garbage in. Feed your subconscious a load of illogical, impossible, crap and it will go into overdrive trying to reconcile it. It will make wild associations between otherwise unrelated things. It will latch onto anything it can somehow justify and base everything else around it.

      You’re a frightened, desparate, person with suicidal tendencies, auditory hallucinations and a head full of nonsense. You need to get off your knees, stand up, and face reality. You need to square your beliefs with the evidence and admit that professing faith in impossible things (immaculate conception, resurrection, assorted miracles, etc.) is not the hallmark of an intelligent adult.

      You said that, “I realized that no matter what I say or no matter what proof I give you, you will not be swayed.”

      That’s what I’d say if I didn’t want to admit I, in fact, had to proof.

      You said that, “When I was young I seriously contemplated suicide, until He spoke to my heart and persuaded me not to take my own life. He literally saved my life.”

      This does not give anybody any confidence in your grasp of reality. You were emotionally and psychologically vulnerable. Hearing God speak while in this condition is not unusual. It’s also not real.

      You said that, “. . . unexpectedly, I heard His voice. He said, ‘break up with her.'”

      God is very concerned with our love lives. So obviously, this time he really was speaking to you. Not!

      You said that, “If I would have said, ‘yes’ to God then I would not have been heartbroken and I would not have, for lack of a better word, betrayed God.

      Let me get this straight . . . your girlfried broke up with you because you disobeyed God? And NOT because she had another lover?

      I hope someday you look back on your ‘lost’ years — when your sanity was threatened by religious gobbledy-gook — and smile: proud that you have put such superstitious foolishness behind you.

  1. There are no trackbacks for this post yet.